Curse

arsie · Feb 22, 2008, 06:21 AM // 06:21

I hope that the racial difference is access to a list of skills like the PvE skills. And hopefully these skills are more flavourful than powerful.

Too much racial difference leads to the game being imbalanced and everyone min/maxing.

Operative 14 · Feb 22, 2008, 06:31 AM // 06:31

I was just in an ingame Gaile session and she said she'd ask about this. So we might know soon either way.

hurdlebeast · Feb 22, 2008, 06:48 AM // 06:48

how about instead of different race bonuses (which i am against, it takes away from the uniqueness of GW, and besides that what attributes are for) have different storyline paths ie instead of of kurz and luxon, have a type of good/bad split paths. for instance, in prophecies, a good character would have to kill the lich lord, while a bad character would use the lich lord and his "minion" (you know who) to, i dunno, kill glint before she can ascend the heroes? something along the lines of that, only in GW2. :P

Jam Jar · Feb 22, 2008, 07:49 AM // 07:49

This is remindming me of WoW now.

pamelf · Feb 22, 2008, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by XoVeR

And thats exactly why their is going to be different classes for each race because of just the common sense aspect to it. I am sorry but you are not going to see Asurans as a hardcore Melee class, it would make absolutely no sense. Same with the Norn being hardcore magic users, their classes are going to be based on their size, and their shapeshifting abilities.

You have to do racial bonuses to fit the storyline.

Not at all. That is pigeonholing someone/thing for how they look. Just because someone/thing is small doesn't mean that it can't be strong and excell at melee just as well as someone the size of a Norn. This is an RPG, and having race bonuses severely curtails the imagination that is meant to come through in establishing your style of play within your choice of character. A small person can be just as tough as a large person, they just bring different abilities to the table. A smaller character would be more dexterous, a larger would simply throw their bulk around. And who's to say that Norn shouldn't be casters? Shape shifting is also moot... they shift because they commune with the animal spirits. This communion could take many forms, and I'd like to see some more scope with this in GW2 rather than just TANK TANK URSAN TANK, which doesn't really excite me as a proscribed way of playing (which incidentally is exactly what race bonuses are). We've already seen all classes apparent in the races in GW1, and I would certainly hate this to change.

Koudelka · Feb 22, 2008, 04:20 PM // 16:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

I am completely against race bonuses. It severely limits how you can play, and the asthetics you can choose. All races should be able to play all classes with access to all the same things. Your play shouldn't be affected just because you liked the way one race looked over the other. In my opinion race should be purely asthetic. But that's just me..

I think of it the same way that the armour became updated that the bonuses were player added, rather than having the inherent bonuses they originally had. Now we can pick the armour for the way it looks and customize it, rather than having our clothing picked for us, just because it happens to have the bonuses needed for the way you play... If it goes for clothes, the same should go for skin...

QFT. I'm still rooting for my Silvari assassin (or if you're feeling special, a Norn Mesmer). I don't want to be kicked out of groups for being the wrong race for my skillbar.

You can't see me · Feb 22, 2008, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

So basically each race has a slight bonus in only one area of expertise? Like, as an example using our current system, a Ranger Asura might have a slight expertise bonus, and a Char might have a slight marksmanship bonus?

The problem I could see with that is that no matter how well they balanced it, there would always be one combination that came out on top, like the ever popular 15^50, 20/20, +30 weapon modifier combination. That is the reason I wouldn't want them to give inherent bonuses. The player base would demand that as a Ranger you only be a Char, or as a Monk you only be a Sylvari, because over the games lifespan, one combination or another would come out on top.

So they either give no bonus to any race for anything, and leave people free to choose what they want to play as. Or they give bonuses, no matter how small, and one combination will be demanded by the player base, otherwise you won't be able to play with the rest of the community.

No, not even that. It's too direct.

Armor bonuses vs. certain damages (small bonuses) speed bonuses in certain areas (2% maybe). Bonuses that would impact on what you're up against, not what you can be.

Rash · Feb 22, 2008, 11:20 PM // 23:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

Your argument might also apply to armors; why have at least 17 different sets per profession if they all do the same thing? Why not just have one set per profession, or just simply one set overall? The answer is that not everyone has the same tastes.

Again, perfect! Specially if you consider how much more expensive and difficult it is to craft the Obsidian Armor in comparison to the Ascalon Armor, and both have the *exact* same stats. And that doesn't prevent people from actually crafting them for personal satisfaction, personal reward and so on.

Races, if they truly exist, should be just the same. Can you imagine these bonuses on PvP? And separating PvE characters from PvP-only characters is a very bad mistake, IMHO.

Operative 14 · Feb 23, 2008, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

No, not even that. It's too direct.

Armor bonuses vs. certain damages (small bonuses) speed bonuses in certain areas (2% maybe). Bonuses that would impact on what you're up against, not what you can be.

So basically, again using a Ranger as an example, an Asura might have +5% armor against elemental damage, and a +10% firing speed buff when firing a bow, where as a Norn might have +5% armor against physical damage, and a +5% armor penetration when using a bow?

I suppose that might be okay. However, as I said in my above post, the community generally figures out what is the most popular combination of abilities and demands that. So even with the smallest advantages, I would fear the community would still funnel one certain species into being the preference for a given class at the exclusion of all other possibilities. They would have to balance it perfectly so no species would have a clear advantage, and personally I'm not sure that's even possible.

Biostem · Feb 23, 2008, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Frankly, I don't think any 1 race should always be better than any other race, at any given profession. A better idea would be to have race-specific armor and a few racial skills. Keep all attributes and stats the same across all races. I do not want to hear about in-game race elitism because Charr get 1 extra marksmanship and any non-charr rangers are teh suxxor, and I don't want to see sylvari warriors laughed at...

Shayne Hawke · Feb 23, 2008, 02:10 AM // 02:10

It's hard for me to decide whether this really is a suggestion, or whether it just belongs in Riverside.

I believe that in GW2, no race will have a specific class assigned to it. Instead, races will have their own bonuses and setbacks that will make certain classes more appealing to certain races. This will cut back on the number of professions in a given race.

Nevin · Feb 23, 2008, 02:23 AM // 02:23

I think having race specific professions would be cool. Like professions that could ONLY be used by one race or perhaps multiple?

Humans
Engineer - Very likewise to the concept class that has already gained much popularity. Wields a musket, and has a unique "material" pool in which he can build turrets cannons etc etc for the team's or his own use. Think medieval technology, I'm not talking about wires and flashing lights and what not. I'm talking about steel clad with wood, maybe even a hint of steam punk to round out the style. They'd have leather bound armor, with lots of gizmos and gadgets.

Charr
Shaman - A very broad and mixed profession. Uses lots of elements of nature unlike an elementalist though, the shaman is more of a summoner. So instead of shooting fireballs and what not, perhaps it could start a fire, or call upon a hurricane. Less direct damage, but more indirect damage over time effects. Should have some healing skills mixed in there too. I'm thinking their skills could be based off some system of tribal markings, in which they can lay a set number down on the battlefield (almost like flags, but more like banners) in which they can than summon stronger and more fierce elements of nature. They would not be like spirits how ever. The charr shaman could perhaps specialize in hand to hand combat as well.

Norn
Berserker - Pretty simple concept, take the warrior shed off some of his armor. Throw away the one handed sword and axe; replace it with two handed axes and swords. Multiple target damage, and perhaps some sort of attack system that could require timing. Consider having skills that require or gain a benefit from activating them "mid swing" or even "beginning of a swing". Thus the berserkers would almost be like a combination of the assassin's combo system + warrior's adreline, with a rhythm stylized twist in which the player must take full advantage of the large weapon's momentum to gain more damage during swings.

Asura
It was really between Alchemist or Golemancer for this one, but I think Golemancer fits the lore much nicer. Pretty general concept though, think of the warlocks of WoW + Beast Mastery. The golemancer would get a single golem that he could customize and equip from start to finish. The golem would be like a permanent hero, it would level with him- the asura could buy/craft/create new components such as stronger arms, faster legs etc etc. Perhaps customization could be taken even further resulting in, flying golems, wheeled golems, or even animal shaped golems (apes, tigers, snakes etc etc). The golem would basically be like a "pokemon" and the golemancer the "poke'master", if that helps people understand my idea better. The golem mancer would use control gauntlets, and have no attacks of his own.

Syvalri
Druid - Pretty stereotypical but I think its really what would fit them the best. They'd be able to fight with bow staffs etc etc. Masteries could include herbology, in which the druid could use the battlefield for his/her skills. Such as upon finding a body of water, the druid could plant a magical plant that heals nearby allies. Maybe even more intense environmental possibilities as well, such as playing a flute song to turn a tree into a fighting ally. The main idea is the druid would tap into the level's environment itself more so than any other profession.

I have an idea also though, something along the lines of the final fantasy job system. Maybe when a player reaches max level in GW, for arguments sake say level 70. They can then become "enlightened" in the path/ways of another race. So say a human warrior/monk reaches level 70, well then maybe he could go to the asura city, do a hard quest- and get to start out as a level 1 Golem mancer but human. Or he could have the choice to start as a level 20 golem mancer, but no longer be able to use a secondary profession while he remains as such. Of course he'd be able to go back and swap to his warrior/monk combo at any time.

Perhaps professions/jobs should function like that no matter what? Then people could actually have fun with just 1 character gaining all the titles.

pamelf · Feb 23, 2008, 11:09 AM // 11:09

@ Nevin... You're assuming the player base want to play just one character to get all the titles. Lots of people like having multiple characters and playing different ways depending how the mood takes them.

...and the word 'job' should never be used in conjunction with any game.

GrimEye · Feb 23, 2008, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Maybe GWEN gives us a glimpse of what race-differences would bring in GW2: RACE-specific skills.

Im still thinking if I like it or not.

Anyway, for a race-class, I would think a Centaur race would be nice since GW1 has one in the character of Zhed.

Nevin · Feb 23, 2008, 03:47 PM // 15:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by pamelf

@ Nevin... You're assuming the player base want to play just one character to get all the titles. Lots of people like having multiple characters and playing different ways depending how the mood takes them.

...and the word 'job' should never be used in conjunction with any game.

Final Fantasy is probably the best known and most popular RPG to date, and it's always used the term job.

llsektorll · Feb 23, 2008, 04:15 PM // 16:15

whatever they decide I know I'm playing Sylvari. Hawt.... looks sexy...

GWEN SPOILER ALERT

I've read up on the history seems like they spawn from that seed shown in the end of GWEN from Ventari. Some soldier (can't remember name) found the seeds in a cave while away from his platoon and he returned to his town to see his daughter and his family were all killed. He and ventari preached peace and created ventari's refuge. They planted the seed in the ground and ventari tended to it till his death. Ventari before dieing underneath the tree wrote his teachings down on a stone tablet. Hundreds of years later the tree spawned Sylvari, which consider the tablet as their holy scripture and follow its peaceful teachings.

Seems like a cool premise for a new race. Gotta love how they tied a town like ventari's refuge into the larger plot... good work GW writers.

draxynnic · Feb 23, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Operative 14

So basically each race has a slight bonus in only one area of expertise? Like, as an example using our current system, a Ranger Asura might have a slight expertise bonus, and a Char might have a slight marksmanship bonus?

The problem I could see with that is that no matter how well they balanced it, there would always be one combination that came out on top, like the ever popular 15^50, 20/20, +30 weapon modifier combination. That is the reason I wouldn't want them to give inherent bonuses. The player base would demand that as a Ranger you only be a Char, or as a Monk you only be a Sylvari, because over the games lifespan, one combination or another would come out on top.

So they either give no bonus to any race for anything, and leave people free to choose what they want to play as. Or they give bonuses, no matter how small, and one combination will be demanded by the player base, otherwise you won't be able to play with the rest of the community.

Agreed. And at least in GW1, as long as you're not an unfavoured primary profession, you can always change your build to match the flavour of the month if you have to. I'm guessing, though, that you can't change your race...

Even with no racial modifiers, in PvE at least race is probably going to have a big difference in how you get treated by NPCs and what sort of quests you do - I don't think I'd want to be a Charr in Kryta or a human in what was formerly Ascalon...

So it could be as much a means of providing variety in startup areas as an aesthetic question, without having skills or attributes tied to race.